New Release -- May 9, 2010

[JustHikk]

Originally Posted by John P Darrow

Not actually true. One of each end product facility, and three each of red windmills and dairy processing, requires 2182 plots kept continuously growing to meet a full production load. This means that if you can keep 2400-2500 plots and harvest, plow, and replant them as soon as possible after they're ready, it's actually possible to produce enough of the planted crops, even tomatoes, to keep up. It's just a lot of work. (Getting friends to gift you blueberries and especially pineapple helps a lot, as it frees up a lot of plot-hours for other production.)

Assuming you max each facility once a day.

Juice Factory needs 600 Tomatoes to max it out.
Sandwich Factory needs 720 Tomatoes to max it out.
Preserve Factory needs 720 Tomatoes to max it out.
Pizza Parlor needs 2160 Tomatoes to max it out.

Thats a total of 4200 Tomatoes [/]per day[/i] to max out on tomatoes. Tomatos grow every 2 days. That means that every time you plant, you have to plant enough tomatoes to max out for 2 days. Thats 8400 plots of tomatoes. Since each farm only has 1024 plots maximum for a total of 3076 tomatoes max every two days, it leaves you about 5,000 tomatoes short ever two days and that makes it impossible.

Even if you drop the tomato juice and ketchup (that can be gifted) it leaves you needing 2880 tomatos per day, 5660 every time you plant, and its still impossible to do.

Cheese:
Sandwich Factory needs 1080 Cheese per day.
Bakery needs 180 Cheese per day.
Pizza Parlor needs 1080 Cheese per day.
Snack Factory 180 Cheese per day.

2520 Cheese per day.

540 Cheese max production, takes 5 "fillings". That is beyond what you can produce daily with one filling since you can only have 3 facilities producing. But, you aren't limited to producing that cheese on your own farm. If you had 20 neighbors that had 3 dairy facilities each, and you were the first one to work each day, you could run max cheese and not even own a dairy facility.

Both of those make tomatos the limiting factor, not cheese.

Anybody thats having trouble keeping up with cheese I can add as a neighbor to work in my facilities. I have two dairy farms now and can add a third one. Whenever you want to work, send me a note and I will make sure the cheese is maxed out so that when you work you get the maximum benefit of working. At 540 cheese per facility, and the worker getting 20%, if they are maxed out then the worker earns 324 cheese per day from me. I will also be glad to work in dairy facilities to help people get more cheese.

The other thing thats a mark against tomatoes is that in order to be able to max it out, you have to stop growing tomatos to grow the other stuff you need to go with it. Onions, Mushrooms, Pineapples (can be gifted though), etc.. so you lose tomato growing time.

Originally Posted by John P Darrow

Cheese, however, _is_ an absolute limiting factor, at least under the one-of-a-given-facility-per-farm limit.

No, because your own facility is not the only way to get cheese. With enough neighbors, you can have enough cheese to max out daily without even owning a dairy facility or a cow.

Originally Posted by John P Darrow

Back when only the pizzas and the cheesecake required cheese, it was possible to cover them using three dairy processing facilities - the six pizzas together required six cheese every two hours, plus another two every four hours for cheesecake, for a total of 14 cheese consumed per four hours; since cheese produces at 6 per 4 hours, having three facilities met the requirement. But the sandwich facility added another three per hour (twelve per four hours), and nachos another two per four hours, pushing the total requirement up to 28 every four hours, or almost five facilities' worth. Since you only have three farms, making cheese at the required rate is simply impossible. And cheese isn't giftable.

Cheese isn't giftable but the milk is, and, you can work in other facilities to gain cheese. The *only* way to get tomatoes is to grow them.

Originally Posted by John P Darrow

The main issue is that the rates for the production of intermediate goods (flour, cheese, etc.) were set back when there were far less final goods that required them for production. For example, when cheese was first added, there were only three kinds of pizza and the cheesecake, meaning two dairy processing facilities easily sufficed; now, lots more things use cheese, but cheese production still happens at the same speed - it's never been rebalanced.

Another aspect is that many of the facilities' production options seem to reflect a developer's original intent/mindset of a facility with a limited number of production slots, where, for example, you'd have six different types of pizzas available but could only make two types at a time, so you'd have to choose which ones to make based on what toppings you have in stock; whereas, the way the facilities actually work now, production profit efficiency basically demands keeping all six types cooking at once.

And the impetus to keeping all six maxed out at once is tomatoes, not cheese

[John P Darrow]

Originally Posted by JustHikk

Assuming you max each facility once a day. [...]
Both of those make tomatos the limiting factor, not cheese. [...]
because your own facility is not the only way to get cheese. With enough neighbors, you can have enough cheese to max out daily without even owning a dairy facility or a cow.
And the impetus to keeping all six maxed out at once is tomatoes, not cheese

The only way you can "max each facility once a day" is to have lots of people come in and speed up your production. If you and your neighbours really have enough lack of outside life for them to be able to come in at your beck and call instantly every time you stuff your facilities (and vice versa), more power to you. (But why stop at once a day?)

My numbers are based strictly on a self-sustaining farm at its _natural_ maximum rate - i.e. no production-speeding from others, minimal gifts (primarily the unproduceable ground coffee and pickles). That was the whole point of the puzzle for me. But then again, I've never played games quite the way other people seem to play them.

[JustHikk]

Originally Posted by John P Darrow

If you and your neighbours really have enough lack of outside life for them to be able to come in at your beck and call instantly every time you stuff your facilities (and vice versa), more power to you. (But why stop at once a day?)

I thought we were discussing the limitation being tomato instead of cheese. Since you can't seem to stay on that train of thought, I won't argue with you. If you want to keep thinking that cheese is the limitation, feel free to be incorrect in your thinking. Trying to get you to have a decent intellectual conversation has been proven to be futile.